Works by Marie Hladikova and Lenka Vitkova in Freak ShowDrew:
First, I must congratulate you for the successful opening on August 21, 2009 of your Freak Show at the Califia Gallery in Horazdovice, Czech Republic. Before the opening you seemed a bit overwhelmed, perhaps frustrated, and then a week later you had a kind of post partum depression and expressed wanting to do this kind of work full time. What is it about curating a show that is so taxing and emotional? I always thought of it as a very controlled experiment.
Tony:
When you saw me at the beginning of the week—it is true that I was overwhelmed and frustrated. (Just as I am now because I am typing this in again a second time since the last version got lost in ether-space). I had certain expectations regarding a number of factors involving the show that were not met. On the other hand, perhaps my expectations were unrealistic. It was my first experience as a curator and the next time around, I know now what not to expect and also what to do differently in order to meet certain expectations.
Drew:
In 2007 you were the Chief Editor for an issue of Umelec (a contemporary arts magazine based in Prague), which was devoted to Hispanic artists as well as foreign artists working in Latin countries. Though curating seems much more logistically challenging, isn't the role of Editor and Curator similar: identifying contributors, getting pieces, filling space?
Tony:
That issue turned out to be the Mexican Issue, though there were key articles, contributions from and about non-Mexican artists, including Luis Camnitzer of Uruguay/NYC. This was also a very taxing project especially, especially since Umelec publishes identical issues in German/Czech/English/Spanish. I controlled the English edition more than the others. My Spanish is not fluent, though Umelec/Divus thought that it was when I accepted responsibility for that issue. And so, also for the record, Marisol Rodriguez in Mexico City contributed immensely to the actualization of that project. I only got the applause for it in Prague. The Embassy of Mexico in Prague, by the way, provided funds for a good opening and party afterwards for that issue.
Especially since so many factors have to come together from a wide range of people/personalities/expertise it is more like producing a film and co-directing it as well (though I've never made a film). I will emphasize co-directing because I have realized that the artists (or at least some artists) can play a much bigger role in curating than is generally viewed. In my case, Marie Hladikova and Lenka Vitkova made some curatorial adjustments at the last minute and I was quite shocked to even consider it, at first, but finally I am glad I succumbed to their advice. A greater ego would have resisted simply out of principle.
Drew:
I would assume curating, in the end, is more satisfying...simply because it is more tangible, communal and you really see how what you have pulled together is immediately received by viewers. In addition to the curating and editing, you have also written many art reviews and articles about art for Umelec and The Prague Post. Does this curating experience change how you want people to experience art: firsthand versus through (your) writing?
Tony:
Yes, you are right regarding your first point. The greatest compliment or feedback I get from my reviews is that I have convinced someone to go and see a show that they would not have otherwise. Whether they agree with my take on the exhibit or not is beside the point. I prefer to write about shows that I have liked—that have given me something—though that is not always the case. I had the same attitude with this show, since I really wanted to get non-regulars into the gallery space at Horazdovice. Whether they liked it or not was secondary.
Drew:
You lived half of your life in California and half of your life in the Prague. You speak English, Spanish and Czech. What insight do you have on the visual arts from this perspective? Are they universal and unifying or are there so many cultural and lingusitic references that the arts have almost as great a challenge as a language, or even a currency for that matter: getting lost in translation or losing value in conversion? I felt that your Freak Show, for example, was really accessible.
Tony:
An important point of the Freak Show was to make it more accessible to the towns folk, than a regular contemporary art exhibit. That is why we plastered the town with flyers/posters as if it were a rock concert or a circus-sideshow the night before the opening. Still the opening did not attract as many non-regular locals as I was hoping. Through the week that we were installing the show, we had put posters in front of the gallery, and a lot of people wanted to come in to see the show, but we had to tell them to just come back. I hope they did, but it's likely that most didn't because they were probably just visiting the city that day. THEN only at the end or rather at the opening, did I fully realize that Freak Show as I understood the meaning in English had no comparison in Czech. In Czech we used the term “Oblidarium” which is the term for circus-sideshow or “freak show”, which was my main intention. But there is another layer of usage for the word “freak” (in English) which was lost in translation. Comics in the 1960s has something to do with this. For instance, Gilbert Shelton created a strip called the Fabulous Freak Brothers who were drug fiends (stoners), and so hippies claimed the term in an affectionate way. On the other side, it was used (then and now) in a pejorative way, as you can imagine the hatred that a “god-damned long-haired hippie freak” can meet in many places, especially in the USA.... the redneck or a policeman mumbling this to himself before he pulls the trigger of his gun. So on one hand the term was a badge of honor or it could also cost you your life. The Plastic People of the Universe were Freaks, in the definition above, and that was their only crime really. Then in the mid 1970s, there was a disco song called Le Freak by Chic, and it is great song to this day. A dance was created for it. This reclaimed the term for a different world, in a different era. And on in subculture lingo in the 80s, 90s, 00s, freaks change form, they have different styles—it is always changing and yet there is something constant about the term itself. And so this was a layer of meaning in the title Freak Show that I was not able to communicate to the Czechs as well as I thought.
Drew:
At the opening you were quite articulate in introducing and explaining Freak Show to the guests and journalists and I remember when you first told me about the idea for the show about a year ago. Can you express the importance of having a real theme to a show and sticking to that vision as a curator.
Tony:
I think I ended up answering this in the last question, but to follow up just a little bit... I did not think this theme would work in Prague—I thought of it specifically for a small town and Horazdovice in South Bohemia in particular. However, now I think the concept could be transferred to a city like Prague. It would still be imperative to get local-community promotion on the streets to get excitement about the show, but I can imagine certain neighborhoods in Prague with appropriate galleries, where I think this could be even more successful than in Horazdovice.
Drew:
You have quite a range of talent in Freak Show artists showing for the first time sharing the space with pretty big names. How do you balance those levels?
Tony:
Two bigger names, Veronika Bromova (from Prague) and Doro Krol (from Holland) are friends of mine for many years, and so they agreed immediately. They fit the bill perfectly from their previous works. Then Josef Bolf is one of the busiest (most sought after) Czech artists these days, finally getting the international attention that he deserves. I'm very glad he agreed to do it, as he easily could have said that he didn't have the time. The other artists were chosen based on the theme, their prior works, their locale (accessibility), or charisma! Clint Takeda is also a long-time friend and I thought it was necessary for him to finally show his work in Europe, since he only shows in the Philadelphia area.
Drew:
I hear there might be a possibility to bring this show to Prague within the next year. How will you change things for a different venue and a different audience? And what would you change in the current installment is you had your druthers?
Tony:
I'm trying to settle this now....There is one gallery which has agreed to do the show again in Prague in August, which is when I'd prefer to do it. But the space is very small, less than half of what we had in Horazdovice. I think in this case, I would have to cut the number of artists to 4, maybe 5 if we use the outside garden and one is a video projection. Some works would change, maybe one new artist. I am also considering a much larger space than Horazdovice in a gallery I won't name, but there it would not be possible to have the exhibit until 2011, which on one hand gives us enough time to apply for grants to build up the number of artists participating (especially from the US), for instance. But the idea/concept could also lose its momentum in this lapse, of two years. Then the question is should I do a smaller version meaning a “Lil Freak” show in 2010 in a small space then a grander version in 2010 and would there even be interest in so many variations of this show? Should I just do something else instead? These are questions under consideration!! If I finally do the Lil Freaks show next summer, this gallery we would have it in is run by artists who also book indie rock and experimental bands from US, Canada, etc. so with their collaboration the Freak Show could eventually take the form of a Prague version of All Tomorrow's Parties, but with an art focus. Different locations every year, some of the same artists, always some new ones and with a music component in the whole event. This could really take off, if there is a public interested.... I would do it!
To read more related posts, click on the following:
Anticipating the Freak Show
First, I must congratulate you for the successful opening on August 21, 2009 of your Freak Show at the Califia Gallery in Horazdovice, Czech Republic. Before the opening you seemed a bit overwhelmed, perhaps frustrated, and then a week later you had a kind of post partum depression and expressed wanting to do this kind of work full time. What is it about curating a show that is so taxing and emotional? I always thought of it as a very controlled experiment.
Tony:
When you saw me at the beginning of the week—it is true that I was overwhelmed and frustrated. (Just as I am now because I am typing this in again a second time since the last version got lost in ether-space). I had certain expectations regarding a number of factors involving the show that were not met. On the other hand, perhaps my expectations were unrealistic. It was my first experience as a curator and the next time around, I know now what not to expect and also what to do differently in order to meet certain expectations.
Drew:
In 2007 you were the Chief Editor for an issue of Umelec (a contemporary arts magazine based in Prague), which was devoted to Hispanic artists as well as foreign artists working in Latin countries. Though curating seems much more logistically challenging, isn't the role of Editor and Curator similar: identifying contributors, getting pieces, filling space?
Tony:
That issue turned out to be the Mexican Issue, though there were key articles, contributions from and about non-Mexican artists, including Luis Camnitzer of Uruguay/NYC. This was also a very taxing project especially, especially since Umelec publishes identical issues in German/Czech/English/Spanish. I controlled the English edition more than the others. My Spanish is not fluent, though Umelec/Divus thought that it was when I accepted responsibility for that issue. And so, also for the record, Marisol Rodriguez in Mexico City contributed immensely to the actualization of that project. I only got the applause for it in Prague. The Embassy of Mexico in Prague, by the way, provided funds for a good opening and party afterwards for that issue.
Especially since so many factors have to come together from a wide range of people/personalities/expertise it is more like producing a film and co-directing it as well (though I've never made a film). I will emphasize co-directing because I have realized that the artists (or at least some artists) can play a much bigger role in curating than is generally viewed. In my case, Marie Hladikova and Lenka Vitkova made some curatorial adjustments at the last minute and I was quite shocked to even consider it, at first, but finally I am glad I succumbed to their advice. A greater ego would have resisted simply out of principle.
Drew:
I would assume curating, in the end, is more satisfying...simply because it is more tangible, communal and you really see how what you have pulled together is immediately received by viewers. In addition to the curating and editing, you have also written many art reviews and articles about art for Umelec and The Prague Post. Does this curating experience change how you want people to experience art: firsthand versus through (your) writing?
Tony:
Yes, you are right regarding your first point. The greatest compliment or feedback I get from my reviews is that I have convinced someone to go and see a show that they would not have otherwise. Whether they agree with my take on the exhibit or not is beside the point. I prefer to write about shows that I have liked—that have given me something—though that is not always the case. I had the same attitude with this show, since I really wanted to get non-regulars into the gallery space at Horazdovice. Whether they liked it or not was secondary.
Drew:
You lived half of your life in California and half of your life in the Prague. You speak English, Spanish and Czech. What insight do you have on the visual arts from this perspective? Are they universal and unifying or are there so many cultural and lingusitic references that the arts have almost as great a challenge as a language, or even a currency for that matter: getting lost in translation or losing value in conversion? I felt that your Freak Show, for example, was really accessible.
Tony:
An important point of the Freak Show was to make it more accessible to the towns folk, than a regular contemporary art exhibit. That is why we plastered the town with flyers/posters as if it were a rock concert or a circus-sideshow the night before the opening. Still the opening did not attract as many non-regular locals as I was hoping. Through the week that we were installing the show, we had put posters in front of the gallery, and a lot of people wanted to come in to see the show, but we had to tell them to just come back. I hope they did, but it's likely that most didn't because they were probably just visiting the city that day. THEN only at the end or rather at the opening, did I fully realize that Freak Show as I understood the meaning in English had no comparison in Czech. In Czech we used the term “Oblidarium” which is the term for circus-sideshow or “freak show”, which was my main intention. But there is another layer of usage for the word “freak” (in English) which was lost in translation. Comics in the 1960s has something to do with this. For instance, Gilbert Shelton created a strip called the Fabulous Freak Brothers who were drug fiends (stoners), and so hippies claimed the term in an affectionate way. On the other side, it was used (then and now) in a pejorative way, as you can imagine the hatred that a “god-damned long-haired hippie freak” can meet in many places, especially in the USA.... the redneck or a policeman mumbling this to himself before he pulls the trigger of his gun. So on one hand the term was a badge of honor or it could also cost you your life. The Plastic People of the Universe were Freaks, in the definition above, and that was their only crime really. Then in the mid 1970s, there was a disco song called Le Freak by Chic, and it is great song to this day. A dance was created for it. This reclaimed the term for a different world, in a different era. And on in subculture lingo in the 80s, 90s, 00s, freaks change form, they have different styles—it is always changing and yet there is something constant about the term itself. And so this was a layer of meaning in the title Freak Show that I was not able to communicate to the Czechs as well as I thought.
Drew:
At the opening you were quite articulate in introducing and explaining Freak Show to the guests and journalists and I remember when you first told me about the idea for the show about a year ago. Can you express the importance of having a real theme to a show and sticking to that vision as a curator.
Tony:
I think I ended up answering this in the last question, but to follow up just a little bit... I did not think this theme would work in Prague—I thought of it specifically for a small town and Horazdovice in South Bohemia in particular. However, now I think the concept could be transferred to a city like Prague. It would still be imperative to get local-community promotion on the streets to get excitement about the show, but I can imagine certain neighborhoods in Prague with appropriate galleries, where I think this could be even more successful than in Horazdovice.
Drew:
You have quite a range of talent in Freak Show artists showing for the first time sharing the space with pretty big names. How do you balance those levels?
Tony:
Two bigger names, Veronika Bromova (from Prague) and Doro Krol (from Holland) are friends of mine for many years, and so they agreed immediately. They fit the bill perfectly from their previous works. Then Josef Bolf is one of the busiest (most sought after) Czech artists these days, finally getting the international attention that he deserves. I'm very glad he agreed to do it, as he easily could have said that he didn't have the time. The other artists were chosen based on the theme, their prior works, their locale (accessibility), or charisma! Clint Takeda is also a long-time friend and I thought it was necessary for him to finally show his work in Europe, since he only shows in the Philadelphia area.
Drew:
I hear there might be a possibility to bring this show to Prague within the next year. How will you change things for a different venue and a different audience? And what would you change in the current installment is you had your druthers?
Tony:
I'm trying to settle this now....There is one gallery which has agreed to do the show again in Prague in August, which is when I'd prefer to do it. But the space is very small, less than half of what we had in Horazdovice. I think in this case, I would have to cut the number of artists to 4, maybe 5 if we use the outside garden and one is a video projection. Some works would change, maybe one new artist. I am also considering a much larger space than Horazdovice in a gallery I won't name, but there it would not be possible to have the exhibit until 2011, which on one hand gives us enough time to apply for grants to build up the number of artists participating (especially from the US), for instance. But the idea/concept could also lose its momentum in this lapse, of two years. Then the question is should I do a smaller version meaning a “Lil Freak” show in 2010 in a small space then a grander version in 2010 and would there even be interest in so many variations of this show? Should I just do something else instead? These are questions under consideration!! If I finally do the Lil Freaks show next summer, this gallery we would have it in is run by artists who also book indie rock and experimental bands from US, Canada, etc. so with their collaboration the Freak Show could eventually take the form of a Prague version of All Tomorrow's Parties, but with an art focus. Different locations every year, some of the same artists, always some new ones and with a music component in the whole event. This could really take off, if there is a public interested.... I would do it!
To read more related posts, click on the following:
Anticipating the Freak Show